grey issues (Part 4)/ gaps in knowledge/ the difference between ignorance and stupidity/ does this scare you how dumb people are? -adults

This is my Dec. 2021 blog post:

grey issues (Part 1)/ Justin Berry/ intervention/ abortions

https://badcb.blogspot.com/2020/02/grey.html

This is my Aug. 2023 blog post:

grey issues (Part 2)/ how well do you know your friends and family?/ truth and lies

https://badcb.blogspot.com/2023/08/grey-issues-part-2-how-well-do-you-know.html

This is my Mar. 2025 blog post:

grey issues (Part 3)/ gaps in knowledge/ the difference between ignorance and stupidity/ does this scare you how dumb people are? -kids and teens

https://badcb.blogspot.com/2025/03/grey-issues-part-3-gaps-in-knowledge.html

Here's the blog post about adults:

Jan. 7, 2024 Gaps in knowledge: I have thought about things when I saw as a teen.  I see how I know some things, but not the whole thing. 

When you get older and learn more, you can see the gaps.

The difference between ignorance and stupidity: I saw an episode of Jenny Jones when I was in jr. high school.  This was the out-of-control teenage girls who wear tight and revealing clothes and say things like: "When I grow up, I want want to be a stripper."

They go to boot camp.

Boot camp captain: Do you know what the difference between ignorance and stupidity is? 

Ignorance is you don't know better. 

Stupidity is you do know better, but you do it anyway.

Mar. 17, 2024 Post Secret:

Classic secrets:

Does this scare you how dumb people are?

2017:

32 yr old Tracy: I have often ask my friends and family in my emails/ blog posts: "Is this a scam?"  I ask co-workers, and my dad this too.  My dad said this wasn't a job scam when he read the emails and website.  

When I went to the bank, they told me this was a scam:

Here is my Jul. 2017 blog post.  

Scream 4/ Southgate Construction scam

Southgate Construction scam:

The people at my bank told me to report it to the police.  I showed the emails to a cop and he told me to call this number instead:

I reported this to www.antifraudcentre.ca.  I called the number 1-888-495-8501:

Jun. 29, 2017: I got hired on Fri. Jun. 23, 2017.  The first thing I did was show the email and website to my dad to ask if it's a scam.  He said it looked legit so I gave my name, number and address to the email.  When I was emailing the boss Todd Miller he said he got my resume through Kijiji.  I did a phone interview with him before. On the weekends, I don't look for a job. On Mon. Jun. 26-Wed. Jun. 28, I didn't look for a job.  I put my binder and paper, and a pencil case with a few pencils in it. On Mon. Jun. 26, I put up my 3 weekly emails/ blog posts.  I read the newspaper a business book.  I went through my news articles I cut out to see what I could post onto my blog. On Tues. I read the newspaper and business book.  I also put up a few job articles I found. On Wed. I went to work. I deposited $4760 check from Southgate Construction into my account. On Thurs. I was told by Todd Miller at Southgate Construction to withdraw $4000 from my account. I was to deposit it to a Scotiabank account.  Then at Scotiabank, CSR Chris and boss Colleen said it is a scam.  Why would a company give you money for work you haven't done yet? Tracy: I can show you the website and the emails.  The money is to go to buy office furniture. Colleen: Deposit the money back into your account and put a hold on that check to verify if it's counterfeit or not. Southgate Constructions 380 Wellington St, London, Ontario N6A 5N9, Canada Phone #: 226-314-0641 www.southgatecons.com todd@southgatecons.com TV and movies: Devil: In the movie, it mentions the job of forensic accountant.  My brother P tells me that it means an account looks into where all the money comes from. Secrets and Lies: In the first season there is a character who finds lots of cash in the house.  Tracy: He should put all that money into the bank account to get interest.  Also what if the house burns down? P: Yeah, but accounts can be frozen. Arrested Development: The 1st season. George Michael Jr.: There is money in the Banana Stand.  There was cash in it. Teen Mom: Farrah got scammed by $3000 when she bought a car online.  This was like in the 1st season in 2009 or 2010.  I can't quite remember it. Catch Me if You Can: I saw some of this movie on TV.  There is a scene where Leonardo DiCaprio's character says: "This is not a real check.  The paper is too heavy." Lessons: 1. No legitimate company would pay you for work you haven't done yet. 2. I remember when I was rereading a Seventeen magazine last yr before I was to donate it.  It was about scholarships: Anything about money can have a scam on it.

https://badcb.blogspot.com/2017/07/scream-4-southgate-construction-scam.html

Gaps in knowledge: There was a big gap.

Ignorance or stupidity?: I would say I was ignorant and I didn't know it was a scam. 

There are some of you would say that I was stupid. 

Does this scare you how dumb people are?: There are some of you who may be scared that I fell for this job scam.

I reported this to the Canadian Anti- Fraud Centre.  I also got a couple of more checks in the mail from these jobs, and I reported them too.

This is from my May 2018 blog post:

fall 2017 TV season reviews (Part 2)

May 28, 2018:

Self-awareness:

The woman who dances like a little girl: It was in SYTYCD in 2006.  This show came out in 2005.  In my teens and early 20s I loved dance.  I liked watching these shows.  It's not until 2010 I stopped watching these shows.  I still like dancing, but not enough to watch these shows.

This blond woman who was overweight comes to audition.  It was contemporary ballet dance.  She had her blond hair in a bun.  She was wearing a black halter top and black tights that were halfway below the knee.  I'm describing it because maybe some of you may want to try to find the video on YouTube.

Mary Murphy: This looks like something I would see 5 and 6 yr olds would perform at a children's dance recital.

My opinion: I thought the same thing.

The woman said she had 13 yrs of dance lessons and this is what she had to show for it.  She was wasting time, effort, and money into this.  If you like dancing, you can if you want to.  She did say she saw the show on and off, and she really thought she can get on the show.  The woman talked to the camera and was indifferent about the judge's criticism.

Math: That's the thing with dancing and arts, it's subjective.  Here's something objective.  It's like looking at a student's grades:

Applied Math 20 (2nd to lowest math class in gr. 11): 52%

Applied Math 30 (2nd to lowest math class in gr. 12): 50%.

Pure Math 30 (grade level average in gr. 12): 63%.

The other core subjects like science, English, and social studies are B and C.

Then it's like having that student apply to the STEM fields in any of the colleges.

Of course the student isn't going to get accepted.  If you want to get accepted into the STEM fields, you have to an A in math and/ or science in gr. level.  Also have As in nearly all core subjects.

The woman's dancing was poor and would not get onto SYTYCD at all.  This student's grades would not get accepted into STEM at all.

Jobs: I was talking to this life coach advisor Bill at Achieve Today.  It was free consultation on the phone.  I told him about my job search to be an administrative assistant and sent my resume.

Bill: Are you qualified?

I would say yes.  

I have a 2yr college diploma in Professional Writing:  I know how to write business letters and proposals.

I have worked at the Office Job in 2013 which is a call centre.  I explain to people how to read their bills and take payments over the phone.

I have worked at the Home Installation place in 2015.  I answer phones, take payments, and schedules.

I attended 2 classes at the Office Assistant program.  A business communication class and a Microsoft Word 2010 class. 

https://www.achievetoday.com/

Nov. 8, 2018: There are variables:

Quantity: Lots of candidates.

Quality: The candidates are more qualified with more experience.

https://badcb.blogspot.com/2018/05/fall-2017-tv-season-reviews-part-2.html

Apr. 18, 2025 Gaps in knowledge: There was a big gap that this woman thought that she was a good and talented dancer to be on So You Think You Can Dance.

Ignorance or stupidity?: 

I might say ignorant, like she didn't know her blind spot and lack of dancing talent.  

She said she watched the show off -and -on, so you can see how talented you have to be to get on this show.

There are some of you would say she's stupid.  She has seen the show before, and she auditioned anyway.

Does this scare you how dumb people are?: This mildly scares me as in "If this woman isn't able to see how not talented she is at dancing, then what else does she thinks she's good at when she isn't?"

Blind Date: 

The woman who can't stop burping: I used to watch this show in my late teens and early 20s.  This East Indian man and woman in their 30s were set up.  In the last half of the date, the woman kept burping really loudly and constantly.  She said "Excuse me" each time.

I watched the whole date.

There were others who looked over at her.

At the end of the date, the man said to the cameras that he wouldn't go out with her again.

The woman said that the date was good and she would go out with him again.

Gaps in knowledge: There was a big gap.

Ignorance or stupidity?: I would say ignorant.

Does this scare you how dumb people are?: No.

This woman made herself look bad and stupid, and she didn't have any self-awareness on that.

Maybe after she saw herself on TV, she realized how bad and stupid and she looked and tried to find a way to help her stop her from burping so much.

The man who said he and his friends buy prostitutes for each other's birthdays: I saw this as a promo for an episode.  I didn't watch the whole date.  By all means, he could have said: "Just kidding."

What if this was true?

Gaps in knowledge: There was a big gap that he shouldn't be telling to this on a first date and/ or on national TV.

Ignorance or stupidity?: I would say stupid.

However, I would have to watch the whole date to make an accurate assessment.

Does this scare you how dumb people are?: I'm leaning to no, but then I would have to watch the whole date.

Dateline: To Catch a Predator: There are a lot of men who made themselves look bad and stupid on this show.  This is a general overview of them.

Gaps in knowledge: No gap.

Ignorance or stupidity?: 

They're not ignorant.  They know what they're doing is bad and wrong so they're stupid.

They know that going over to a 12 yr old's house when their parents and guardians aren't home is bad.  They were going to have sex with this kid.  That's:

- ethically bad

- immoral

- illegal

Does this scare you how dumb people are?: No.

Jun. 2, 2017 Oprah's serious episode: This aired in 2003 or 2004.

A man kidnaps 2 women at 2 different times and held them captive, and raped them: 

It was about this old white guy.  He looked like he was in his 60s or 70s.  His wife got cancer and he can't have sex with her.  

He then kidnaps a woman and puts her in his basement for awhile.  I don't know, 3 months?  

He rapes her.  

Then he releases her and she told police, but they can't find the man.

The man then kidnaps another woman and does the same and held her for a year or 2.

The women were white.

One of the women said: "He drove a 1974 Mercury."  The police looked into it and couldn't find the car.  Then it turns out it was a 1975 Mercury, and that was quite a lot of time later.

The police chief was there and apologized to the woman for not looking into different years of the make of car.  The woman nodded and cried, like she accepted his apology. 

Later they did catch the man and arrest him.

Man: I thought I was going to get community service.

The audience is shocked.  They gasped.

If he can't have sex with his wife, he should have hired an escort.

Gaps of knowledge: A huge gap.

Ignorance or stupidity?: Ignorant.  He really did not see anything bad and illegal about:

1. Kidnapping 2 women at 2 different times.

2. He held them captives.

3. He forced them to have sex with him and that's rape.  

Does this scare you how dumb people are?: Yeah, this scares me.  

The whole audience gasped, so they seemed scared.  

I'm sure you're reading this and are scared and disturbed by this.

Apr. 18, 2025 Cops: I used to watch this show in my late teens and early 20s.  This Latino man cop sees a really old senior white man who looks like he's in his 70s or 80s and he walks with a cane.  He was with a dark skin Black woman who wore a red dress. 

The cop thinks he's hiring as a prostitute.  The cop goes over and arrests the man and tells him to be safe. 

The john who was hiring a prostitute:  

Gaps in knowledge: No gap.

The difference between ignorance and stupidity: None.  He knows he was hiring a prostitute.

Does this scare you how dumb people are?: No.

Nov. 17, 2024 

Post Secret:

On one side: "My husband was sick a long long time before he died.

I grieved, am still sad but this widow is ready to get BONED again.

On the other side is a drawing of people at a cafe.

Boyd: "You can not always predict or control the consequences": 

I got this from the TV show Dollhouse.

"A top secret organization erases the identities of attractive young people, turning them into blank "dolls" ready for imprints of temporary identities they need to fulfill assignments for clients."

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1135300/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_in_0_q_dollhouse

My experience of staying up late:

It was back in Sept. 11, 2014.  I stayed up late until 10pm to watch Captain America on TV.  I had to work tomorrow and wake up at 6am.  I thought I would get off work at 12pm and then can sleep on the bus.

But no, I had to work at lunch too because it was busy.  

I thought I could predict and control the consequences of staying up late, and I wasn't able to.

It's very rare that I stay up late to watch TV or movies.  I usually go to bed by 9pm.

If I wake up in the middle of the night to go to the washroom and I can't get back to bed, then that's on me.  I can't control it and that's fine.  I wouldn't be upset with myself if I was tired at work. 

My opinion: If you read the "grey issues" blog posts, there were a lot of cases where you can't always predict or control the consequences.

I would say the case where Angela tells 4 girls about Ashley's eating problem.  There were a lot things that could have went badly like Ashley yelling at Angela and the 4 girls.

The other 2 blog posts of the week:

"Vacant Bay stores could spark interest — if landlords are willing to get creative"/ "Why Simons and Holt Renfrew are unlikely to want all of Hudson’s Bay’s real estate"

https://badcb.blogspot.com/2025/04/vacant-bay-stores-could-spark-interest.html

"Apparel brands grappling with 'tariff hell,' says Canadian industry group"/ "Clothing companies fear Trump tariffs will leave them worse for wear"

https://badcb.blogspot.com/2025/04/apparel-brands-grappling-with-tariff.html

My week:

Sun. Apr. 20, 2025 I called Dan L: Today is Easter Sunday, and I had free time.  I called him and we talked for 51 min.  

There is the current events of Hudson's Bay closing down and he didn't really like the quality of the products.  He, and family and friends said the shirts there aren't good, and would buy shirts at Costco.

Sun. Apr. 20, 2025 Leo poll:

Roza R, Toronto, Ontario, would like to know:

Are you celebrating Easter today?

Yes    50.86% (2131)

No    49.14% (2059)

My opinion: No, my family and I don't celebrate that.

I was kind of surprised that I saw in my neighborhood that someone put "Happy Easter" on their lawn.  I don't see anyone decorate their lawn and house unless it's Halloween and Christmas.

Mon. Apr. 21, 2025: 

LEO would like to know:

Do you usually sit on patio in the summer?

Yes    49.74% (2232)

Sometimes    29.71% (1333)

No    20.55% (922)

My opinion: Yes, but replace "patio" with backyard.

Apr. 24, 2025 Recycle or donate eye glasses: My mom had an old pair of eye glasses.  My little brother P and I looked on the internet, and 

you can donate your eye glasses to a lot eye glasses stores like Wal- Mart. 

 

https://davidsuzuki.org/living-green/how-to-recycle-eyewear/

"Apparel brands grappling with 'tariff hell,' says Canadian industry group"/ "Clothing companies fear Trump tariffs will leave them worse for wear"

Apr. 8, 2025 "Apparel brands grappling with 'tariff hell,' says Canadian industry group": Today I found this article by Paula Duhatschek on CBC: 

Canadian fashion brands are grappling with the impact of Washington's steep new tariffs on garment-making hubs like China, India and Vietnam.

"One of my members called this 'tariff hell,'" said Bob Kirke, executive director of the Canadian Apparel Federation.

Retail groups in the U.S. have similarly warned that tariffs on Asian countries, where most American clothing is manufactured, will mean a steep uptick in prices ahead of the back-to-school season. 

While the Canadian apparel sector wasn't targeted directly by the tariffs, 

many companies headquartered here 

make their products overseas 

and sell to customers south of the border.

Canadian retail giants like 

Aritzia, 

Lululemon 

and Gildan 

saw their stock tumble after the tariffs were announced last week by U.S. President Donald Trump.

Access to the U.S. market is critical for brands in this country if they hope to grow past a certain point, 

says Emma May, founder of the Calgary-based womenswear brand Sophie Grace.

"The U.S. market's amazing, it's huge," said May, who has customers on both sides of the border. 

"We solve the same problem for the U.S. customer that we solve for a Canadian customer and there are 10 [times as many] of them." 

But May is starting to reconsider some of her U.S. expansion plans. 

Her clothes are made in China 

and warehoused in Canada, 

where they are shipped to U.S. e-commerce customers. 

On top of an additional 34 per cent tariff on Chinese goods imposed last week, the White House has also said a previous exemption, that allowed small orders from China into the U.S. without tariffs, is closing.

"Maybe the U.S. market is just not something we can go at because our products will end up being just far too expensive for that customer," said May. 

It's unlikely the U.S. will allow loopholes for Chinese-made products 

that make a pit stop in Canada

 before being sold in the U.S., 

says trade lawyer John Boscariol.

The Trump administration "is trying to close up any loophole or potential exemption," said Boscariol, a partner with McCarthy Tetrault in Toronto.

And while clothing is a prime example, Boscariol says many Canadian businesses are likely dealing with the same problem.

"Whether you're in clothing, apparel items, toys, whatever... whether that's China, Vietnam or any other country in Asia that's now been targeted with very significant tariffs, you're going to be impacted by this in terms of your access to the U.S. market."

Why not change factories? 

Jeremy Oldland, co-owner of the Montreal kids clothing company Hatley, manufactures his products in China and India. 

He supplies pint-sized rain boots, pajamas and jackets to department stores, boutiques and e-commerce customers south of the border. 

U.S. sales make up about half his revenue, says Oldland,

and he expects that imposing a new surcharge on all those orders will spur a wave of cancellations. 

"We're going to sell less product. It's going to hurt any way you do it," he said.

 And yet shifting supply chains out of Asia to North America would be difficult.

"We don't have 

the tradesmanship, 

the craftsmanship, 

we don't have the printing techniques, 

we don't have a lot of things [in Canada]."

Kirke, with the apparel federation, says the new tariffs are hitting the industry particularly hard because they seem to come out of left field. 

In recent years, growing trade tensions between the U.S. and China have prompted some larger retailers to start shifting production outside of that country, 

a move that was also driven in part by reports of forced labour in China's Xinjiang region.

But now, the U.S. is also going after smaller manufacturing hubs like Vietnam, Cambodia and Bangladesh, where companies had previously been trying to diversify their production. 

"That's a hard, hard thing to deal with," said Kirke.

Kirke says he is glad that the U.S. tariffs don't hit Canadian-made products, though this is a relatively small portion of the total industry.

The hope, he says, is that Trump will change course and back down on his tariff policy.

As for May, with the brand Sophie Grace, she hopes to continue growing her business — but with an emphasis on customers north of the border. 

"We will obviously be looking to retrench in the Canadian market and then also explore other markets like Australia and Europe," she said. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/tariffs-canada-clothing-china-vietnam-1.7504380

Apr. 15, 2025 "Clothing companies fear Trump tariffs will leave them worse for wear": Today I found this article by Tara Deschamps on BNN Bloomberg:

TORONTO — When Nina Kharey wakes every morning, the first thing she does is search online for U.S. President Donald Trump in hopes that the global trade war he sparked is dissipating.

Most of the time, her hunt ends in disappointment.

“It’s a lot of uncertainty at the moment,” said Kharey, a Calgary-based designer who runs

 luxury womenswear line Nonie 

and workwear brand Folds. 

“I wake up every day right now with anxiety.”

The refrain is similar across the fashion industry because of its global nature: 

material, 

buttons, 

zippers 

and more often zig-zag across tariff-targeted Asia 

before being turned into garments there 

or sent on to North America. 

The web like nature of apparel supply chains can leave Canadian brands dinged by tariffs if they ship goods from foreign partners directly into the U.S. for manufacturing or distribution.

In addition to Canada, Trump has imposed tariffs on most other countries including European fashion meccas France and Italy 

as well as places with low labour costs and easy access to textiles such as 

Bangladesh, 

Cambodia, 

India, 

Indonesia, 

Malaysia, 

Pakistan, 

Turkey 

and Vietnam.

Most of these countries were whacked with varying double-digit tariffs before recently receiving a 90-day reprieve and instead being hit with a 10 per cent duty, at least temporarily.

Clothing production powerhouse China has been subject to a 145 per cent tariff from the U.S., which was not lifted, 

and lobbed a 125 per cent levy back.

“I have many colleagues that are in the fashion industry, and so many of them do get their products made in China and it’s really difficult to hear their struggles,” said Kharey.

“The bigger guys, they’ll figure out a way to get through this. 

It’ll be hard for them, but it’s the small businesses right now where it almost feels like they’re like pawns.”

Daniel Baer, a partner at consulting firm EY Canada focused on retail, said apparel companies of all sizes with products passing through countries ensnared by tariffs are doing whatever they can to cope.

For many, that means rethinking 

where they source components from, 

where they manufacture clothing 

and what route products take to make it to shoppers.

“But these types of changes are not changes you can do on the flick of a switch or do overnight,” he warned.

Kharey knows rerouting production is time-consuming because Folds recently moved production from Canada to Tunisia, which was subject to a 28 per cent tariff from the U.S. until Trump put a 90-day pause on the duty and replaced it with a 10 per cent charge.

Even though shipping from Tunisia to Canada is not impacted by those tariffs, Kharey imagines Folds won’t be unscathed.

“The costs in Tunisia probably will go up, especially since one of their biggest main exports is textiles, and that’s where we are,” Kharey said.

“We have to juggle, 

do we leave our pricing where it is and see how this goes 

or increase our pricing?”

For now, she’s not hiking prices.

Neither is Hayley Elsaesser, a Canadian fashion designer who runs a self-named label.

The company is “doing everything we can to avoid” raising prices, 

because with “inflation and the rising cost of living, 

it’s something that affects our customers deeply, and we’re always mindful of that,” 

she said in an email.

Baer thinks apparel brands coping with the trade tensions will eventually have to pass on the costs of the tariff war to consumers, especially if Trump follows through with his promise to remove the de minimis exemption on May 2. The legal mechanism allows many goods valued at or under $800 to enter the U.S. without paying duties.

Many clothiers have staved off immediate increases because their spring and summer inventory is already in hand and they’re placing orders for fall. 

That could mean higher prices will hit just in time for back-to-school shopping, Baer said.

By then, consumers’ ability to spend may be even lower than it is now.

Its current, depressed level is a worry for Elsaesser, who called it the “biggest impact” her business is seeing.

“We have customers all over the world, and there’s a lot of concern and uncertainty about how things are changing,” she said.

When consumer confidence dips, Baer said shoppers tend to trade down to 

more affordable brands, 

seek more discounts 

or go without discretionary purchases altogether.

While parents may not have the option of avoiding purchases for kids outgrowing their clothing,

adults may decide to stick with what’s already in their closet for several more seasons,

weighing on retailers.

“Can I wear this jacket two or three or four more seasons? For sure, I could,” Baer offered as an example.

“Would I like to wear two or three or four more seasons? No, because it will be out of fashion ... but nothing will prevent me from doing that because it is discretionary.”

This report by The Canadian Press was first published April 15, 2025.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/tariffs/2025/04/15/clothing-companies-fear-trump-tariffs-will-leave-them-worse-for-wear/

My opinion: 

1. How about all of you stop shopping and buying clothes?

You should appreciate and wear all the clothes you already have.

2. Or you can buy second hand clothes.

3. Or you can swap clothes with your friends and family.

"Vacant Bay stores could spark interest — if landlords are willing to get creative"/ "Why Simons and Holt Renfrew are unlikely to want all of Hudson’s Bay’s real estate"

Apr. 1, 2025 "Vacant Bay stores could spark interest — if landlords are willing to get creative": Today I found this article by Tara Deschamps on BNN Bloomberg:

TORONTO — Apartments, health centres and even pickleball courts may be coming to your local mall after Hudson’s Bay departs.

Retail and real estate experts say the closure of most of the 355-year-old company’s department stores offers a chance to reimagine the country’s most sought-after and high-traffic spaces in malls.

“I think it’s a massive opportunity for landlords to reinvent,” said Kate Camenzuli, vice-president of retail at commercial real estate company CBRE.

“It may take a bit of time, but I think it’s a huge positive because this is the last large-format piece of space that will be and is available in the Canadian marketplace.”

The 74 Hudson’s Bay, 

two Saks Fifth Avenue 

and 13 Saks Off 5th stores 

set to be vacant as Canada’s oldest retailer closes all but six sites typically cover about 120,000 square feet apiece.

Some locations like the Toronto flagship on Yonge Street are enormous: Hudson’s Bay takes over 675,700 square feet there and the adjoining Saks another 175,000 square feet, court documents say.

The retailer’s stores tend to be in Canada’s busiest shopping corridors, making them prime for a reinvention some landlords have quietly been thinking about for years.

“In my landlord days, we had plans on ... resetting the Bays for pretty well, I don’t know, 15 or 20 years, for sure,” said Toran Eggert, who advised landlords before becoming managing partner at Toronto-based real estate brokerage Urban Reform Realty.

Because Hudson’s Bay sold much of its property and took on leases in recent years, any reinvention will largely hinge on the outcome of the company’s creditor protection case.

An Ontario court gave the retailer permission to gather bids from companies wanting to buy or assume its leases. But businesses looking to supplant Hudson’s Bay may have to meet the same terms the retailer agreed to when it obtained the leases.

That would likely require the leaseholder to take over the entire property and could even stipulate the occupant be a department store, 

leaving few companies able to meet the requirements. 

If no tenant signs on under those circumstances, it’s possible a landlord could start over with a new company, and new lease terms.

Landlords want as much control back as they can get, said Eggert, but few brands other than

Walmart, 

Canadian Tire, 

La Maison Simons, 

The Brick, 

Ikea 

or grocery stores would want as much space as Hudson’s Bay will leave behind.

“The size of the floor plans are massive, and in today’s world, people just aren’t looking for anything that big and that’s going to be a real challenge,” said Lanita Layton, a luxury and retail consultant who was once a vice-president at Holt Renfrew.

She imagines a European department store could swoop in but thinks it’s much more likely malls will wind up breaking up the space, 

mirroring the Eaton Centre in Toronto, where Simons, Eataly and Nike will soon take over two floors previously held by Nordstrom, a U.S. department store which departed in 2023.

If landlords go that route, Layton said there is likely to be interest from more traditional retail brands as well as food hall and entertainment operators.

Camenzuli thinks the Hudson’s Bay departure would allow 

escape rooms 

or driving or golf simulators 

to enter the market, while Kate Black, the Vancouver-based author of “Big Mall,” envisions

 pickleball courts 

and medical services 

joining the mix.

In more dramatic instances, both even see landlords rezoning their anchor tenant sites for residential uses.

However, Black warned some malls, like those in smaller towns, may not get a shot at reinvention because the Bay’s departure will be a death knell for the entire property.

“When those main event tenants like the Bay close down, the rest of the mall is put at threat,” Black said. “So it’s not just the Bay closing, but now the food court is at risk of shutting down.”

But its exit won’t send most premium malls into a tailspin. In fact, it will be “a better win for the shopping centre than having a bit of a big box that has crickets going through it,” said Camenzuli.

She reasons new tenants will generate more traffic and also sign leases that better favour landlords.

Lawyers for Hudson’s Bay landlords have said the retailer’s leases carry “extraordinary” benefits and concessions, including “more favourable rent.”

“Those leases were done quite a while ago, and if they were restructured, they were restructured in the Bay’s favour, so it’s not even close to what market is,” Camenzuli said.

Crafting a new lease with a new tenant won’t be quick. Neither will the time it can take to accommodate the new occupant and any construction they require, said Eggert.

“The whole process can take a couple of years,” she said.

“But mark my words, they’re all on the phone right now making sure that there’s some key interest in their in their sites.”

This report by The Canadian Press was first published April 1, 2025.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/business/company-news/2025/04/01/vacant-bay-stores-could-spark-interest-if-landlords-are-willing-to-get-creative/

Apr. 10, 2025 "Why Simons and Holt Renfrew are unlikely to want all of Hudson’s Bay’s real estate": Today I found this article by Tara Deschamps on BNN Bloomberg:

TORONTO — When Hudson’s Bay revealed it was liquidating almost the entirety of its empire, some thought the selloff would be an opportunity for two of Canada’s last standing department stores: La Maison Simons and Holt Renfrew.

Because their size and product mix resemble the Bay’s at first glance, the rivals might have seemed like the most logical fit for the millions of square feet the Bay and its sister businesses Saks Fifth Avenue and Saks Off 5th will leave behind, but neither appears to want to take up the ailing retailer’s full mantle.

Holt Renfrew spokesperson Adam Grachnik said in a statement that the luxury retailer was “not considering” making a play for the Bay’s leases but “is committed to helping our colleagues with any opportunities we can provide.”

Simons CEO Bernard Leblanc similarly said his company has “no new announcements planned” but 

“is always up for a challenge 

and is carefully analyzing all potential opportunities across Canadian markets.“

“We are not rushing things,” he said in a statement.

“We are patient to find 

the right opportunity 

at the right moment, 

in the right place,

and under the right conditions. 

Ultimately, our goal isn’t necessarily to be the biggest retailer but rather the best in the eyes of our customers.”

Retail experts say it’s an unsurprising but wise stance for two brands that have preferred to take a slow-and-steady approach to expanding rather than behave like the department store game should be winner takes all.

“Retailers are getting very mindful of the customer still wanting a physical presence but balancing that with not having too much real estate,” said J.C. Williams Group retail strategist Lisa Hutcheson.

If Simons or Holt Renfrew were her clients, she said she wouldn’t encourage them to go after the 74 Bay locations, 13 Saks Off Fifth stores and two Saks Fifth Avenue sites available as Canada’s oldest retailer liquidates all but six of its shops.

Taking over one or two of the sites may be something to consider “down the road” because the

locations are in prime shopping districts 

and may be more affordable to obtain because the Bay is in creditor protection, she said.

However, she warns that Canada “only has so much population to be able to support these bigger footprint stores and they would be a big undertaking, even for Simons or Holt Renfrew.

“There’s still a cost to build these stores out,” Hutcheson said. 

“Millions goes into them

and it’s not even just 

the rent, 

but the commitment to fill the store with 

inventory 

and staff.”

The plan Simons has to open forthcoming locations in Yorkdale and Eaton Centre malls in Toronto, 

doors away from two of the last Bay stores, 

by this winter was years in the making and part of a $75-million expansion.

It will give the retailer, which got its start in 1840 as a dry goods business, a store count of just 19.

Leblanc has said the number is low because it reflects the company’s penchant for slowly maneuvering into markets rather than barreling through with plans to open on every corner.

“It’s a long play for us,” he told The Canadian Press last spring. 

“We have been and will continue to be patient (because) the intent is not to be the biggest. 

It’s really to be the best at what we do.”

The modus operandi appears similar at Holt Renfrew, which started as a fur shop in Quebec in 1837.

The business is now known for stocking ritzy designer wares and has just six stores in Canada.

“They decided many, many years ago that they’re not going to bite off more than they can chew,” said Lanita Layton, a luxury and retail consultant who was once a vice-president at Holt Renfrew.

The company’s formula is based around 

a high standard of customer service 

and a very specific amount of floor space 

that allows the retailer to be profitable with the high-end inventory it stocks.

“They don’t want to get into something that they’re not comfortable with and 

(when you’re) adding on more square footage, 

with every square foot, 

you’re adding to your cost,” 

she said.

She thinks the brand is unlikely to find many of Hudson’s Bay’s stores attractive simply because they occupy spaces that lack the luxury shoppers the retailer targets.

Even Simons will find some of the Bay properties too large, she said.

“I would imagine each of them is hopefully going to take advantage of what’s happening with the Bay and maybe expanding a little on their home and epicure, but it’s not going to need 100,000 square feet,” Layton said.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published April 10, 2025.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/business/company-news/2025/04/10/why-simons-and-holt-renfrew-are-unlikely-to-want-all-of-hudsons-bays-real-estate/